A Reluctant Entrepreneur - Faceless Businesswoman #9

How did you get started in your industry? I have to be very honest; I am very much a reluctant entrepreneur. I'm not someone who got into this because I come from a lineage of business people or I have some legacy family, you know? There are, but it's not like, I wanted to start my own company because of them. The reason why I even started my own company was because of why I may be a businesswoman now. Cause I don't even feel like that word, it sits so like awkwardly on me. You know, like, when wear something and you're like, oh, this feels weird. I always sit very uncomfortably with the words “businesswoman” and “entrepreneur” because of the fact that I am a creative person. And so for me, I've realized that if I want to have creative freedom, I can't work within a big corporate structure anymore. Because on some level or the other, it just doesn't let you do the things that you want to do. You can't just have an idea and do it. Which is why I do it myself - I have the ability to have my own show and I think of an idea and then just do it because I can. Rather than having to now ask multiple people's permission for the money to do it, the permission to do it, and then change the idea because someone in the middle doesn’t think it fits the structure or the ambition of the company. I can just do something cuz I feel like it. That freedom is what I have in running my own business. But the actual running of the business is traumatic, to say the least. It's one of the most stressful things in my whole life. So that's why I would say that I'm very much a reluctant entrepreneur. I'm also very lucky that I don't run it solo. That I do have a partner that handles a lot of the operation stuff. So I'm not directly dealing with like tax stuff, he deals with that. I've lucked out on that, but I swear to you, I wouldn't have started this if I didn't have a partner already. I am very honest to say that I'm not doing this on my own, or I would’ve freelanced for the rest of my life. As a reluctant entrepreneur, what would you say is your job title? So, right now I'm the CEO of Maed in India. But I am very much in this space where I don't like the word CEO; the job title that I liked in my life was when I was the creative director of a company. The title creative director was kind of nice because I am creative and I technically am a director because I'm at the top of the thing. But technically I can't be the creative director of my own company, then who's CEO and who's COO and someone has to be chief and all. With regards to what I think fits me in general, is that title - as conventional and simple as it sounds. Did you get a degree and if so, is it directly related to your field or not? I'm a Master's degree holder. I always kind of knew I wanted to be in the media, I just didn't know kind of where I sat. I did my Bachelor's in Advertising because I thought that was interesting. Advertising is creative, but with like a commercial bend in it, which is I think the thing that I found interesting - that you could actually be very creative as a copywriter or a designer and then still be able to make money from it. But of course, when you're really in the world of advertising, it's quite soul sucking. So that was the thing that I didn't really enjoy, but the coming up with the ideas and coming up with something creative and being able to do something creative and still be able to like pay the bills, that I enjoyed. Journalism was also something that I was interested in in the space of media, which is why I did my Master's in Journalism Study. That was when I really found my calling in some sense. I loved journalism, it was fascinating for me. I always knew I had like some kind of affinity towards radio and audio and that's when I pursued radio journalism, which is where I started my career. But then it was really tough; I was trying to get a job in the UK and I basically was there for four years for University and then I worked there for two years, but I also graduated when the recession happened. So it was really hard to get a job, especially as an Indian woman - we weren’t part of the EU or British citizens. So any company that wants to hire you has to prove why you are better than everyone in the UK that wants to work at the company. So that was kind of a struggle. If I wanted to be a nurse, a doctor and an engineer, or even an accountant, I would have been able to get a job easier because those are the brackets of visas that they offered more freely. So how long then have you now worked in your industry? About 15 years. And you started in radio journalism? I was working for a community radio station in the UK in Wales. It was actually me and this Scottish guy. It was so funny. One Scottish guy and an Indian girl are running the news section of a community radio station in Newport in Wales. It was very bizarre but amazing. He and I got along really well and we're still friends. He is working at the BBC now, which at the time I would have wished to be doing too! At least at that time, that was like the big dream, you know, like working at the BBC was like this big thing! I think I just grew up thinking that being able to be part of that system would've been exciting. But then I came back to India, and India's really a different situation. I couldn't be a radio journalist here because private commercial radio stations can't broadcast news. Only public radio can broadcast news, but it's not public radio in the sense of like the BBC and the conglomerate that that is. I mean, news exists everywhere, you just can't do it on private commercial stations. I knew I wanted to keep doing radio though so I moved to Chennai and I was working in a radio station there as a creative manager. But I also had a weekend indie music show.

Then I started working as a music journalist for a Publica, an online sort of alternative culture publication called NH7.in. That was my real education in the independent music scene. I knew it existed (I have cousins who are in bands) but I didn't really know it and really understand the depth of it until I actually started writing about it.

I don't think I would've lasted very long there because I think radio and audio were very at the core of me. And so I got picked up by a radio station here in Bombay and I worked with them for about three years. I used to host the weekend show and then hosted their afternoon request show. I felt quite creatively stifled, it’s like however long you can survive in a corporate system though.

I felt like I couldn't do the things I wanted to do. I left radio and decided to go out on my own and only freelance. At the time literally, everyone was like, “you're making a big mistake. You shouldn’t!” (except my mother - she was like “you do you”) I wasn't starting my company then, I just wanted to freelance, do voiceover work, and write. When I left it was very much “you'll come back after three years,” and the irony is that now they're contacting me to understand podcasting because that's the space I got into. I have no regrets about my decision.

I love radio as a medium. I love it because the difference between radio and podcasting is just the immediacy of it. Because in radio, there's a real buzz. It’s not like TV broadcasts either. With radio, you just walk into the studio, you push up a fader and then you're live on air, like the world can hear you. So it's very much like a medium that's like very immediate. It goes live. So that buzz of like being on the radio, I miss that.

I can't deny that, but I just didn't like the structure in which it was in. The great thing about podcasting is the luxury of time. I can record something and put it out like three months from now and actually take the time to make it sound amazing.

What do you think are essential qualities for someone who wants to get into your industries?

One is that you want to be a creator, in the sense that you want to be a podcaster, but that sort of differs right? There are various ways in which you can enter the industry. If you want to be a podcaster, I would ideally say - and this seems very obvious, but a lot of people don't realize that this is what you're supposed to do - but have you listened to any shows?

Surprisingly, I’ve found a lot of the time they've never heard podcasts or they don't have a favorite. You wouldn't become a filmmaker unless you watch films.

But if you have an idea for a podcast and you want to pursue it, I'm always like, “go for it”! Make that idea, make the pilot. Even if you have to take your phone recorder and record something and see how you are as a podcast host, do it - listen back to it!

Because that's another thing, people just want to talk, they don't realize what they're making. So one of the most important things is like, interview your sibling or your parents or someone that you know. Think, “I’m gonna interview this person who knows me personally, so I can do this as a short interview and then see how it is.”

I would say, to create the show that you want to make and then listen back to it. One of the things that is super important is when you hear your show you start thinking, “oh, this doesn't actually work here.” “Maybe I should do it from the beginning and then do this other thing instead.” That’s how you'll actually be able to troubleshoot the stuff that you're doing. That way when you create a product - you're not just making it and putting it out into the world, you're actually consuming your own show!

And I think that's the most important thing - if you want to be a podcaster, is actually consume shows and consume shows that you are making.

So - understand what kind of podcasts are out there, then hone your idea, make the pilot, and listen. So this is like going through the journey of making your own thing.

The other is of course, is there are other ways in which you can be part of the industry. You could be a writer or a graphic designer who creates artwork for podcasts. You could be an audio engineer, sound designer, a producer, like all that kind of stuff! These are other roles that I feel are an important part of the podcasting space.

What would you say are your least favorite and your favorite parts of the industry?

So the industry stuff that I really enjoy is actually the work, like getting the chance to make shows is the fun part! That's where the creative stuff comes out for me. That's where, you know, you get the chance to work with people and come up with ideas and do things and make it and troubleshoot.

I Like coming up with the idea, the client loving it, and then actually making the show. Also when someone gives you an amazing budget to make a show that you want to make without having to spend your own money - that I really love. The actual work is the fun part. I wouldn't be doing this the way that I'm doing it if I didn't enjoy the actual work.

The thing about the industry I don't necessarily like is that I feel like I'm too indie for my own good sometimes. Like people know who I am in the industry, but I'm not mainstream so I don't like fit into a box that people think that I should fit into. I feel like I’m not inside enough, I have some level of clout, but I still feel like an outsider in the sense that I'm not like, fully in.

The other thing that I think is relatively misunderstood is that India is a very different market in the podcasting space in comparison with the US or the UK. In India, there's no one language, one unifying language. One of the struggles that I've had in talking to people is when they suggest like “maybe we should do the show in Hindi,” and I'm like, “but then you're alienating the whole of South India”. Or “We should do it in English”. Then you're alienating a whole bunch of people who don't know English. So there's a real division in the way that people consume content. So that sense that like, India's always going to be a very different market in things like monetization and listenership.

If you could do it all over it again, would you want to end up where you are now?

I would not be where I'm at now. I would've taken a very different path.

My Maed in India show was originally with another company and I took that out of the company; I wanted to pursue my show independently. The survival of my show was my priority when I went on my own. So I kind of fell into producing others podcasts to keep Maed in India going.

So like my real wish at that time was that Maed in India was the only thing that I was doing. Because that was my favorite part of my job, I love making my show. That was like the original plan, the OG plan.

But then obviously I had to earn money and I had someone that I knew through my radio days who ran her own bakery and pastry company and she wanted to make her own show. She approached me and said, “I wanted to be able to work with you and would you be able to produce my show?”

She was literally one of the first people that invested in working with me as a company. After her, many more people started approaching me through having heard her show or knowing one of us, and then that's how I started to get more work. So slowly I started getting more work and then built the company, and that's the path I'm down now.

What does your typical daily schedule look like?

I'm a morning person. I'm very much a morning person - I wake up in the morning and I'm like, yay! Because I've been traveling a lot, I haven't had the chance to do my usual morning exercise and all that. So I'm still getting back into my routine again. But I try to give myself at least half an hour of like either a walk or doing some yoga. But consistency is the most difficult thing. My house help will come and she'll make me my chai in the morning.

And then at 11:00 AM I have an editorial meeting. Which is that my whole team and I, we're all sort of based in different parts of Bombay, and one's in Pune, and Coimbatore, in different parts of India as well. So we all come together and we do an update. Basically all kinds of catch-up on all our shows. We set work assignments, make decisions for things, etc.

Either before or after that I might have some meetings. I try not to schedule too many meetings because we live in a world now where it's like back-to-back con calls all the time and by the end of the day I'm feeling like, “did I do any work today?”

So I'll have a few meetings and sometimes we have recordings that we do. And so every day the one thing that always remains the same is our editorial meeting, but then the day sort of changes depending on what kind of work we have.

Last week I was in a place called Amristar because we were doing a production there; they have a place that is sort of at the heart of the Sikh community called the Golden Temple. And they have one of the biggest free community kitchens there called the Langar Kitchen. So we're actually doing a feature about the kitchen. So I was there for three days. So sometimes my days are just a little erratic.

I try to end my day by seven ideally, but you can't run a company and assume that your day ends there. There's always going to be something that crops up and that kind of thing. My energy like dips in the evening, so for me, I find that if I'm doing any evening work it should be very simple and rote.

How do you cultivate your creativity?

I can't be creative in the evening. My ideas always happen in the daytime and the sunlight on my face - I love a good stare out the window and zone out. Sometimes when you have the time to even give yourself that much where you just kind of like zone out and you're thinking of nothing, it's so good because I'm always so active all the time.

Corporate culture wants ideas now, and in a space that isn’t always conducive to creativity. It's just like how do people not realize that to come up with a good idea, you need time. I'm not saying that I want all the time in the world. I'm saying, give me a week. I don't think that's like much to ask for.

Because like, one of the things that I think people don't realize about creativity is that it needs space and it needs space physically and it needs space in your head. Because you have so many things that are going on, it can be very difficult to be creative. So sometimes the best places for creativity are when you're in the middle of nowhere or you're on a beach. You know, that's why a lot of people do these little creative retreats because it takes you out of the place that you're in and always thinking. Creative retreats aren't in the middle of a busy street in the middle of a city, they are out in the wilderness somewhere in the middle of nowhere. They're not like, let's go to the busiest part of the country. No.

What does work-life balance mean to you? Obviously, taking time to look out the window and get creative is part of your work-life balance as well as taking your mornings for yourself.

Absolutely. I think the tough thing is that when people talk about work-life balance for me is my work and my life are all like one thing now. But the balancing act is being able to have the time where I get to do the things that I want to do. And that might seem quite selfish, but for me to be able to work really well, I need sleep.

And I need to have the brain space to do something. If I'm just working nonstop, I can cope, but coping is not how we work as humans. So if there is something I really want to make time for, I will. But some things are harder than others, like travel.

Like I love traveling, I love being in different countries and in different places that aren't like the place that I'm in right now. And I really miss that. I come from a job that requires me to be in a studio constantly. In one place. So I really miss doing that regularly. I think that trying to find that balance between prioritizing you and the things that'll help you work better is key.

Work-life balance could mean anything from literally taking a break and traveling to, going to go see your friend and catching up and chatting shit. So it's all these tiny things that make a huge difference for how you feel overall. It's not like I don't enjoy the work, but I also should have the ability to be able to allow myself to be me and do the things that I want to do. So I think that's work-life balance.

How often do you schedule time off for vacations and where was your last one?

So I feel like the only time of year that I really get to prioritize me is December, because my birthday is in December. I'm not one of those people that's like shy about my birthday. For me my birthday is like a national holiday, it must be declared by the Prime Minister of India on my birthday because everyone deserves a holiday on my birthday. If I had the choice, that's what would happen!

This time around I had been invited to Berlin for a conference and then I just stayed on for a week longer! I don't know when I’ll ever be in another Europe country again so this was a huge opportunity. So I stayed on and sort of explored a new place and that was my birthday gift to myself. I mean, not that I wasn't working, but I allowed myself to be able to be in a new place.

I also try to fit in my grandma, she’s my last grandparent who's still alive and she's in Kerala. I try to go and see her whenever I can. I find ways to go and travel in December.

Are you a life planner? And if you are a life planner, what is the next big thing you're going for?

Maybe the pandemic has aged me by like 20 years, but the thing that I am most excited about is retirement, I'm so excited about retirement. You do whatever you want. That is like literally the thing that I am most excited about - the luxury of doing absolutely nothing.

I cannot wait for that day. Everyone's like “hustle culture and I will work in the day I die.” I'm like, no. I want to be able to create a nice corpus fund and then I will just live off the interest and retire.

I'm not saying that I don't want to have creative pursuits. But there is a point in time where I don't wanna work anymore. I want to be able to enjoy my life and I wanna be able to do the things I wanna do the way that I wanna do them.

What did you want to be when you were a child or when you were younger? Like prior to college?

I recently got asked this question and I couldn't remember. One of the things that I feel like I do remember is being something I wanna do, a thing that I remember I was excited about is teaching. Which I kind of like half do because I teach people about podcasting.

Later on, when I was a little older, I think being a researcher was something I was interested in because it's very related to journalism.

Favorite book:

I'm currently reading a book by Angela Saini; she's a scientist and a science journalist. She's written a bunch of books where she looks at science but from a very interesting perspective. I have read her two previous books. One is called Geek Nation about India's relationship to science. The other is called Inferior, which sort of understands science through the lens of gender, and understanding the way science/research is done is quite gendered.

Right now I'm reading her book Superior, which talks about race science and how understanding race and the way science is done around race. She's an author that I've been really interested in her work in the last, I don't know, say four or five years. She's so good. And the thing that makes it really interesting is she's very accessible in the sense that it's not particularly jargony and wordy. I really like her books because they're actually very nuanced but they're so well written.

Favorite Band/Musician:

Probably, Dave Grohl

Favorite hobby:

Doing nothing. On the top of my list. It's too much of a luxury now.

Favorite food:

I guess my favorite food is kerala food because I'm originally from Kerala, in South India. So I feel like that's the food that I miss the most because I don't get enough of it. So probably, my grandma's cooking or kerala food.

What is the weirdest thing you have in your bag for work?

I love jewelry. I always keep a spare pair of earrings because I lose earrings all the time. I might not wear a lot of makeup, but little earrings or little rings do make you look nice.

Do you have a secret talent at all?

The thing that people ask me to do because I'm a voiceover artist, is they'll ask “Hey, can you do something with your voice?” And I can switch my voice.

A mundane thing about you. Something just boring about you:

Um, so this is super basic, but, you know how people are like, “I’m a tea person” or “I’m a coffee person”. I like both. I am both. I always get stumped when someone's like, “tea or coffee”. And I'm like, “oh my God, this decision is so difficult!”